Curse

Back then · May 24, 2009, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Well I always thought thievery was a really cool concept, and with NF you could now use any skill in the game with a 16 attribute.... so, why doesn't it see more use? I could see this being very useful in HM where you want to shut down hard-hitting bosses before they spike your team. And with Signet of Illusions, you'll still be able to dish damage back out. A bar like

[Signet Of Illusions][Smooth Criminal][Arcane Thievery][Arcane Larceny] and the rest of your bar devoted to e-management and utility... could be a very fun build that's also effective. I could also see this build being great in RA to shut down enemy monks or other classes (like E/Me mind blasters) who are crippled without certain skills.

Just wondering if anyone's tried it and how feasible it is?

Luminarus · May 24, 2009, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Yes, not very, etc. The random nature of those skills prevents it from being very useful.

upier · May 24, 2009, 07:38 AM // 07:38

1. If you want to cripple something like a MB ele - then Signet of Humilty is superior.

2. The biggest problem of Thievery/Larceny is that they are the only skills in GW that I know that actually get worse in PvE the more you invest into their selected attribute! Larceny will steal a skill for a certain amount of time. And the problem is that Larceny does not revert back to it's original form when the foe dies. While this is good in PvP - because this means that the guy that will get rezzed lost his skill for a quite a long time - in PvE this means YOU can't steal a spell from your NEXT target. By running high domination - you lose more than the foes does.

3. Larceny/Thievery will steal random spells. Which means your build is pretty much going to be as effective as had you just put a few completely random spells onto your skillbar. In GW you are going to get better by looking for synergy between skills - and random skills most definitely do not offer that.

Larceny and Thievery would be one of the best forms of mesmer PvE shutdown had they followed a few basic rules:
1. you can not steal a recharging or an already disabled spell.
2. when the foe dies - the skill reverts back to it's normal form.
In that case - Larceny and Thievery would be worth taking. (SoI still wouldn't be though! That thing just has no light at the end of the tunnel. It's simply bad.)

Bill Clinton · May 24, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

1. If you want to cripple something like a MB ele - then Signet of Humilty is superior.

2. The biggest problem of Thievery/Larceny is that they are the only skills in GW that I know that actually get worse in PvE the more you invest into their selected attribute! Larceny will steal a skill for a certain amount of time. And the problem is that Larceny does not revert back to it's original form when the foe dies. While this is good in PvP - because this means that the guy that will get rezzed lost his skill for a quite a long time - in PvE this means YOU can't steal a spell from your NEXT target. By running high domination - you lose more than the foes does.

3. Larceny/Thievery will steal random spells. Which means your build is pretty much going to be as effective as had you just put a few completely random spells onto your skillbar. In GW you are going to get better by looking for synergy between skills - and random skills most definitely do not offer that.

Larceny and Thievery would be one of the best forms of mesmer PvE shutdown had they followed a few basic rules:
1. you can not steal a recharging or an already disabled spell.
2. when the foe dies - the skill reverts back to it's normal form.
In that case - Larceny and Thievery would be worth taking. (SoI still wouldn't be though! That thing just has no light at the end of the tunnel. It's simply bad.)

I like your suggestions for the skills. I always thought they should update all the skill-stealing mesmer spells to be like that. But also they should make them all copy the atribute of the foe they stole from, so that you do not need signet of illusions just to be effective with them.
If this happened running all the theivery skills would suddenly make more sense. You could shut down enemies bars whilst being effective in your own right.
Powerfull monk boss? No problem, steal all his skills and start healing your team while they own him.

upier · May 24, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

I like your suggestions for the skills. I always thought they should update all the skill-stealing mesmer spells to be like that. But also they should make them all copy the atribute of the foe they stole from, so that you do not need signet of illusions just to be effective with them.
If this happened running all the theivery skills would suddenly make more sense.

That would need to be a PvE only change since that would be a mix of Symbols Of Inspiration and Simple Thievery and they are both elites! It would just be way to overpowered to steal a spell from a foe and then use it at max efficiency.
At least this way we get a trade of - you remove a skill from the foe and unless you get lucky - you also lose a skill.
1 vs 1.
Still, because you control when you want to lose a skill - that still makes the skill quite potent.

zelgadissan · May 24, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back then

and with NF you could now use any skill in the game with a 16 attribute....

upier already hit the big points about why SoI/stealing is relatively meh - hell, he's the one that made me realize how to properly use Thievery/Larceny (cue superhero kid picture

) - so I'm basically quoting this to point out that it's not all skills.

SoI only affects spells. It won't increase the duration of Save Yourselves!, it won't make your Lightning Reflexes awesome, it won't give you an uber-Signet of Rejuvenation, and for a serious example, it won't make Glyph of Lesser Energy even more cheating than it already is. (It really should scale number of skills with EStorage.)

I think you knew all that since you're talking about stealing spells, but figured it was worth pointing out just in case.